Ruth Aspy and Jamie

I first met Ruth and Barry and heard them present on The Ziggurat Model at ASA in Rhode Island. My immendiate reaction to their presentation was, “These people GET IT!” The more I am around them, the more I am impressed by them. We sure enjoyed spending some quality time with them in Orlando- that’s Jamie with Ruth in the picture. They were kind enough to take time out of their busy schedule to answer a few questions

1. How did each of you begin working in the field of ASD and how did you come to work together?

Both of us worked as psychologists in the public schools.  We shared many projects and often consulted with each other on challenging cases.  Our roles included working as part of autism evaluation teams, consulting regarding behavior interventions for students with ASD, and training staff to identify and provide services for those students.  While we were working with all students, ASD became our special interest and area of emphasis.

2. What led to the creation of ‘The Ziggurat Model?’ Have you been at all surprised by its success? We created the Ziggurat Model out of a need that we observed.  As psychologists, we consulted with a number of school staff and parents.  A need for increased knowledge about the characteristics of ASD as well as effective intervention for individuals with ASD was evident. We saw some common pitfalls in the design of interventions for individuals on the spectrum.  Too often students were “blamed” for behaviors directly related to the underlying ASD.  This resulted in punitive responses.  There was also a tendency to put students into settings without adequate support. We sought to give people a process for effective comprehensive intervention planning

At times, we have been surprised by the positive response.  The Ziggurat seems to have “arrived” at a time when many people were ready for and seeking a framework to provide structure to the intervention process.   We have seen the Model adopted at statewide and province wide levels.  The model has been applied successfully in residential settings, social understanding groups, and parent training.  The applications of the model have definitely gone beyond what we had originally imagined.

3. Who has inspired you? (note:not necessarily just folks related to ASD) Dr. Brenda Myles is an inspiration.  She works tirelessly to make a difference for those with ASD.  Her knowledge is encyclopedic.  Throughout it all, she keeps her sense of humor.   Parents of kids with ASD who not only diligently work to remove obstacles that may impede the success of their children, but who also serve as educators and mentors for the broader autism community are also inspirations to us.  Eric and Jen Blackwell and Kristi Sakai are prime examples.  They are the true experts.

4. Are you currently working on any new projects? We are working with experts in evaluation to write a textbook on interdisciplinary evaluation for diagnosis of ASD.  This is an area that we think is critical.  It is essential that evaluations be conducted by highly trained and experienced professionals working as a team.  Our hope is that this textbook will improve the preparation of professionals who will serve on interdisciplinary teams and as a result more families will have access to quality evaluations. We are also building a private practice in Plano, Texas.  The practice includes a team of professionals from a variety of fields who work together to provide higher quality evaluation and intervention services.

5. Outside of work, how do you enjoy spending time?

We both enjoy spending time with our families and friends.

Kari Dunn Buron and Jordan Blackwell at NATTAP 2007

We caught up this week with Kari as she was returning from a trip to Africa (we’ll let her explain!). Her book, “A 5 is Against the Law” was just named Literary Work of the Year by the Autism Society of America. You can learn more about Kari’s work at her website.

AutismNotes: How did you ‘get started’ in the area of ASD?

Kari: In 1979 I was finishing up my Master’s work at Illinois State University. I had met a woman through my programming and we talked about where we might go when we finished our degrees. We both had an interest in Minnesota. She graduated before me and moved to MN to work in an EBD classroom. Just prior to my graduation date I got a call from this woman asking me if I would be interested in working with children with autism. Admittedly, I did not know very much about autism but I did want to work in Minnesota so I drove up and interviewed for a position to start one of the first autism programs in MN. I got the job and dove head first into what turned out to be the most rewarding and energizing careers one could ever hope for.

AutismNotes: What led you to become an author?

Kari: In the late ’90’s, my colleague Mitzi Curtis and I started running social skill groups for students with Asperger Syndrome and HFA who had significantly aggressive behavior. One of the strategies we started using was a visual scale to quantify and clearly explain social and emotional concepts. We modified the scale several times and eventually found that a scale of 5 seemed to work most efficiently. We had great fun with our 5 point scale and we started teaching other teachers to use it too. Every time we demonstrated, recommended or taught someone about the scale, people responded very positively. We received a lot of positive feedback locally about the success people were having with the scale strategy. Some others even suggested that we write a book about how to use the scale. It took about a year for us to get our thoughts clearly down on paper and submit it to the then fairly new publishing company of AAPC.

AutismNotes: Do you have an experience or person who truly stands out in your memory from your work in this field?

Kari: I have so many memories and wonderful stories of children with autism that span the last 28 years. I will tell you one that changed the course of my thinking. It was 1985 and I had been teaching children with autism for 5 years. I was learning more about autism every year but still struggling with explosive and aggressive behavior. The program I was teaching in at that time used locked timeout rooms for such behavior. If a child was aggressive, I was to lead the child to the timeout room and let them know that because they did what they did, they would need to go to timeout. One day a student of mine threw something at my head. I can’t remember what led up to this but my head began to bleed and my educational assistant immediately took the boy to the timeout room. I sat outside the timeout room and listened as the boy started to cry. He then called my name and asked me why he was in there. At that point I started crying myself, realizing that he was in there because I didn’t know what else to do. That summer I attended the national ASA conference (I think it was in Detroit) and I heard John McGee speak about Gentle Teaching. That changed the course of my career. I learned everything I could about GT and I had direct training from Dan Hobbs. Although the approach did not give me all the tools I would need to be successful, it gave me a rock solid philosophy for thinking about the behavior I was observing and introduced me to the concept of Proactive vs. Reactive teaching. I began to think of challenging behavior as a lack of skills rather than some well thought out response. This was a novel concept in the mid 80’s and I feel so privileged to have happened upon it early. Over the next few years, the program I worked for eliminated the use of time out.

AutismNotes: What are you working on currently? (I think WHERE is also a good question for you these days!!)

Kari: I have been doing volunteer work in Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies for many years and I recently spent a month in Tanzania working in a school for children with autism. I have retired from public school but still teach classes in the ASD Certificate program at Hamline University in St. Paul. This new flexibility has given me the time needed to participate in volunteerism in autism. My latest publishing projects include co-editing a new textbook with Pamela Wolfberg titled Educating Learners on the Autism Spectrum: Preparing Highly Qualified Teachers, published by AAPC’s new textbook division and developing a social skills magazine called The Social Times. I am very excited by both projects.

AutismNotes: And ‘just for fun’, what do you do in your down time to relax?

Kari: My husband and I have a house in Bear River, Nova Scotia. I love spending time there reading, writing and painting. We both enjoy drawing, photography and watercolor. I consider Bear River one of the most relaxing places on earth. Lately I have worked with the Hearing and Service Dogs of MN to train my dog, Claire. She and I work every summer at Camp Discovery, a camp for youth with Asperger Syndrome in northern MN. I am amazed at Claire’s intuitive abilities and feel excited about the possibilities of canine therapy and autism. I hope to see it formally research in the future. I also love swimming, skiing, sailing and hiking.